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From: Rosalie B. (no email)
Date: Sat Jun 03 2006 - 11:35:53 EDT
On Fri, 2 Jun 2006 21:00:17 -0500, you wrote:
This is Ken's post edited so that his responses are unquoted. Most of
what he was responding to was posted by Bryan Genez - I think from two
different emails. I found this was quite easy to do without looking
back at the emails, which I did only to check on Bryan's name.
>I'm not saying it can't happen or has never happened, only that the threat
>is not nearly as large as some suggest.
>
I am sure that is true. However that does not negate the fact that it
is in fact a very real and significant risk.
>
> Personally, I've never met anyone
>who has had a collision with a container, nor have I seen an email from such
>a person.
>
I don't know about emails, but there have been many, many reports in
sources over the web and in published documents as well as studies,
Gov't and otherwise, that reveal the risk to be a valid concern.
>
> I have, however, met many sailors who delight in fabricating
>stories of the dangers "out thar".
>
Sure. And many who deny actual risks as well.
>
>The physics of containers will result in nearly every one sinking shortly
>after they're lost overboard.
>
In fact it is true that most remain afloat at least for some time.
Also a significant percentage float for much longer times. A few may
float for weeks or months. If there are thousands a year being lost
and only 5% float that is still a lot of hazards that are very hard to
spot.
> a Containers are steel. They are not air- or
>watertight.
Some are in fact. But true most are not.
>
>Typically, containers are filled to capacity, because the
>shippers charge just as much to ship an empty container as a full one. So,
>for a container to remain "semi-submerged" - i.e., partially afloat - it
>must be filled with cargo that will displace the weight of the container
>plus any water it ships. That can happen; it just won't happen often.
>
What makes you think that is so? If you research the matter you will
see that in fact all sorts of cargo has been found in floating
containers, shoes, electronics, books, toys, wood pulp, too much stuff
to mention.
There has even been the suggestion to put a dissolvable plug in them
to make them sink but it was pointed out it would not work, due to the
buoyancy of the cargo.
There are as many as 10,000 containers lost over the side of ships
every year;
http://www.cargolaw.com/2004nightmare_unstacked.html
At least some of them float and are a hazard;
http://www.oceannavigator.com/article.php?a=1008
There is plenty of evidence that collision with them is a real risk
and does happen on a regular basis, some of these are well reported
collisions by well known sailors fairly recently;
http://www.latitude38.com/LectronicLat/2001/May2001/May21/May21.html
http://www.ganssle.com/jack/aarwen.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vend%C3%A9e_Globe
http://www.cruisingconnections.co.za/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=71&whichpage=2
http://no-barriers.com/node/108
http://www.sailingsource.com/scuttlebutteurope/951.php
>There are three risks that are commonly underestimated in my opinion that
>any cruising boat that sails long enough may well have happen, lightning,
>hitiing a whale, and hitting a container. Here is info about vessels hitting
>whales, not that uncommon;
>
>http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/pdfs/shipstrike/lwssdata.pdf
>
The thing about shipping containers that makes them dangerous is that
they are very hard to detect.-Ken
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