Next message: chuck: "Re: [world-cruising] Preparation for cruising"
Peter,
Loved the extra information... I was however asking the question of
What are the minimum safety items I need for the trip... ?
And listed the perfect scenario. (Sorry if I did not make that clear)
I was being rather tongue in cheek when I suggested 5m Rib etc.... but everyone has a different comfort zone. {Whilst I would love a 5m rib we have a 2.4m hard bottom tender}
"Toys seem to end up owning us" - I had never thought of this - but you all 100% correct.
I fully agree a 12 man liferaft for 2 people is dangerous - it will flip over.
Communications - dammed if you do/ dammed if you don't. Having it simply gives you options....
Best of all - you read my comments, applied them to how you feel - and based on that, you choose to reject or agree with some/none of them.... This is great..... options/feelings/choices
Warmest regards
Tim
________________________________
From: on behalf of Peter Ogilvie
Sent: Fri 24/03/2006 23:07
To:
Subject: RE: [world-cruising] Preparation for cruising
Tim's suggestions for things to think about are excellent to jog the mind. Being out there isn't exactly like you envisioned it. If it was, everyone would be out there and the ocean would be way too crowded.
Good survival list but Tim's minimum safety requirements sound like maximum to me. What you really need is a bailout raft 4-6 man or properly configured dinghy <portlandpudgy.com>, unless you plan on sailing with an army, and the supplies (water & food) for an extended stay of a week or two, two epribs and survival suits if you are sailing in cold water. With my list, you just saved enough money to extend your cruise for more than a year over Tim's 'must have' list, and haven't compromised your chance of rescue, even in remote areas.
I've cruised with and without communications, short and long range, and find it a two edged sword. Yes it's nice to be able to talk to people but it also obligates you to constantly check in. Miss a scheduled session because your having too much fun and the worried folks back home iititiate a wide ocean SAR exercise. I was ready to throw our HF radio overboard at the end of our last passage because it took too much away from what I really like about being at sea. Same goes for Satellite phones. Communications are nice but what you really need is a way to notify people that you are need of help, right now, and that's what an EPIRB is for. I suggest two. My expectation of electronics is that they will fail, especially when most needed. Having two EPIRBS doubles your chance of having one that works and extends the time that they will function if you get lucky and both do work.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that too large a life raft is actually a danger in large seas. The too large raft will allow you to be thrown relatively large distances and the chance of injury is way greater. Seeing the floor space in a 4 man raft, it seems very small, but it's adequate for what will hopefully be a relatively short stay.
An inflatable dinghy is almost a must have for cruising, not just survival. A rib, because of it's rigid hull could present a safety threat in a survival situation, however. Don't know if I'd want that hard fiber glass bottom anywhere near my life raft in big seas. Definitely wouldn't need 5m rib. Not in the ferry business. A 2.5 or 3 meter rib would work just fine. I also get really pissed at the A** Holes that race around the anchorage in their ribs with 30hp engines. I do not go sailing to be harassed by some Yahoo with too much hp, no brains and no concern for others.
Radar is a nice have feature but a GPS, a Chart and careful navigation will keep you out of most any potential trouble. If you are worried about other traffic, it's not such a bad idea to cozy up to the shore and drop the hook, in any case. Hey you're cruising, deadlines are not what it's all about. It's really an ethereal experience hanging out int the fog. Some of my most pleasant memories of cruising are reading a book while the fog envelopes the boat.
I'm still utterly amazed at how great it is to look at my handheld GPS and know my exact lat. and long. In the good old days, we never had this comfort unless we were comfortably tied to a dock and then only after we asked what place the dock was we were tied to. With DR and celestial, we were always lost, it was just a matter of degree of lost. A fix was within a couple of miles and in no way adequate for precise piloting without visual references. Now, it's push a button and within a minute or two, Voila!! The mind boggles.
Absolutely don't need, refrigeration, tv, hotwater, washing machine, and other useless gadgets. When we have our toys, the effort to keep them working can overwhelm the safety/pleasure of the entire cruise. The toys will break and it seems like we cannot just let them go. They have to be fixed at any cost or inconvenience. I know of many really stupid and/or obsessive things people have done to fix something they didn't need. More than one cruise was ended because the refrigeration packed it in. The frustration, inconvenience and real life threatening actions of getting it fixed caused irreperable animosity and disallusionment of the crew. Toys seem to end up owning us, not the other way around.
As has been mentioned before, the really important thing about going cruising is untieing the dock lines. People seem to find almost any way to postpone the departure date until they are no longer capable of going, btdt. Getting our boat ready for the cruise was a never ending process. There was always something new to add to the boat or something old that needed to be changed or replaced. My wife finally had enough of it and gave me an ultimatum. Either we left by the end of the month or she wasn't going. It was the impetus I needed to quit stewing and leave. We filled the diesel and water tanks, bought our last perishables and were gone the next day. For us it wasn't just gone down the coast to the next harbor but 2800 miles south in the middle of nowhere to the Marquesas, btw. Never missed any of the stuff I felt I had to have and was able to make any changes that were really necessary along the way.
Aloha
Peter O.
TIMOTHY SEED <> wrote:
What are the minimum safety items I need for the trip
Ideally 5m RIB, 24m Radar, SSB, AIS, 8 Man Ocean Liferaft, Survival Suits, EPRB, InmarSat
These costs serious money, and require deck space/power
What can we not do without ?
TV, A/C, Cold Beer, Ice Cubes, Hot water, Thanksgiving in the US, speaking to your friends, seeing kids
This very quickly will give you a "must have" equipment list.
Timescale ? - Now, Soon, One Day
If now.... then your financial options are more fixed - later means time to plan
Commitment - Full Time, Part time, I need to work as well
Are you going to just cruise ? Or Cruise for 4 months, work and then cruise some more ?
This may effect where you cruise to i.e. leaving your yacht. Maybe you can work/live on yacht at the same time.
Money - I've lots, I've little
This alas is probably the most important factor.
Sailing experience - Lots, Little, None , Will learn on the way !!!
Be cautious, build experience
Once you have the above as an idea - then looking for a yacht/craft will be made slightly easier
Best regards
Tim
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