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From: Len den Besten (no email)
Date: Sun Jan 02 2005 - 08:21:06 EST
Hi Joe,
I didn't mean to belittle anyones advice and surely
not Bryans... :)
I'm sorry if my writing gave that impression...
You say you use a snubber to prevent the anchor coming
loose in high windspeed. I think it only protects your
material from hard shocks. When the chain is in a
straight line due to wind or swell I expect the anchor
to come loose in any case cause of the angle of the
anchor-rode, even if you use a snubber.
I think it would be nice to elaborate on this topic,
even if it is discussed in previous threads.
I'd like to know the various (?) views in this group
about proper anchoring technique.
We use a 1500 watt windlass on a 50k lbs boat so we
use caution. A brutal hydraulic system would be nice
but hey you can't have everything... I'm happy to have
a remote control near the wheel, with a chainmeter.
For sand and weeds we use a 77 lbs Bugelanchor
(German) as our first. Cuts through weeds like nothing
else and is fine, only in mud it won't hold cause of
it's little holding-surface in square inches. Second
anchor is a nice big Lewmar, a 105 lbs CQR.
We choose our preferred position from expected
winddirection and speed, current, depth, and the
ability to make a 360. Then we move up wind and on the
spot go into reverse.
When stopped we lower the anchor, avoiding piling up
chain cause it can get tangled. We feed chain while
moving backwards in a way it isn't pulled tight and
also isn't piling up. When circumstances, wind,
current allow we move backwards slowly.
When enough chain is fed (5-7 times depth) we come to
a stop, close the separate chain-stopping-clamp and
that way avoid the load on the windlass. In reverse
again and when the anchor bites we give full reverse
for a minute and look at a fixed point ashore. The
feeling I get on that moment stays with me during my
stay.
When it's soso I bring out the CQR with the dingy
using nylon rope in a V-shape. We never use a double
anchor (attached next to each other with say 5 meters
space) cause it's a pain when you need to leave.
We'll also "invest" a few amphours using the
gps-anchor alarm, connected to my speaker system so I
really do wake up when alarm goes off.
When the spot isn't protected all round and wind is
forecasted I might add a 12mm nylon line with two
harps on both ends. I just use it in two links that
are more apart from each other then the length of the
rope (+/- 3 feet).
When we leave one of us is on the bow and makes
armsigns, see below. When the anchor has dug in really
deeply we reel in as much chain as possible, close the
clamp and push the anchor out with the diesel. With
the short chain the anchor-rode will rise so the
anchor will come loose.
About arm-signs, I found a description in another
group. We think it's useful, particularly in cases
when it's windy.
---------quote; I've lost the author's name----------
Believe it or not, hand signals are internationally
standardized and used for things like crane
operations, where there's commonly somebody
(the signaler) at the point where the load is going
and somebody else (the crane driver) who runs the
crane in response to the hand signals.
The driver is frequently working 'blind', i.e., he
can't see the load at all -- so the signals must be
pretty good! Here are dome of the more salient ones:
Arm extended -- go that way (i.e., extended to right,
go right;
extended toward the stern, reverse)
Arm bent at elbow -- go other way (i.e., if using
right arm, go left)
Palm down, patting motion -- slow down
Palm up, patting motion -- speed up
Twirling index finger in any direction -- go this way,
SLOWLY
Opening and closing fingers against thumb, with arm
signalling direction -- move a small amount in
indicated direction, then stop
Closed fist -- STOP
To these, we've added 2 more, specifically related to
anchoring:
Motion of hand vertically, from highest extent down to
knees: Anchor rode is "up and down"; hold position if
possible
Sweeping arm horizontally -- anchor's aweigh; carry on
at slow speed
And one, for safety when a line is under or near the
hull:
Hand slash across throat -- STOP PROPELLOR (neutral or
engine stop)
In the case of the crane operators (and also on our
boat) the signals refer to the _outcome_, not to the
action taken by the operator. For example, in our
case the closed fist means "Stop the boat" NOT "Put
the engine in neutral." The driver generally puts the
engine in revers, and, monitoring a point on the shore
or looking at the water alongside, puts the engine in
neutral when the boat has stopped. With
a less experienced driver, it might be better to think
of the signals as rudder and engine commands, so the
closed fist would mean "Put the engine in neutral".
This requires the signaller to send LOTS more signals,
as "Reverse" (arm toward stern) becomes "Neutral" when
the boat comes to a stop, etc.) This, it seems to me,
could cause
problems when the signaller gets tied up in other
things, such as a jammed windlass, and can't easily
give the next comand at the right time.
In any case, you should decide upon (and stick to)
which convention you are using -- do the signals
communicate boat actions, or rudder commands?
-----------end quote------------
I'd like comments.
Regards,
Len
S/v Present
--- Joe & Lynn Jelinski <> wrote:
> Len -
>
> Bryan's advice has been pretty solid for us. I
> listen a little more carefully to a guy who has
> survived a few tours of sea duty in the Coast
> Guard, since they experience a lot of the same
> conditions we boaters see, and some that are much
> worse.
>
> We always use a rope snubber, in addition to the
> relying on the nice soft chain catenary (which I
> agree provides a great amount of "give"). Our
> snubber has 1/2-inch rope and also incorporates one
> of the rubber "mooring compensators" in-line, to
> give additional stretch.
> When the wind really pipes up and the anchor chain
> gets bar-tight, then without a snubber there
> is a harder shock on the anchor with each wave,
> which contributes to its pulling out. At that
> point it's too late to do anything other than start
> the engine and try to re-anchor.
>
> We experienced this high-wind phenomenon at three AM
> one lovely night last April in the Dry Tortugas,
> when the wind, in an unforecasted event, got to
> hurricane strength and our old reliable CQR dragged
> for the first time ever, snubber or no. But at
> that point it's really a matter of how hard
> the pull on the chain is before the shock absorbent
> factors are used up and you're tugging directly on
> the hook. For what it's worth, we take the
> precaution of using a snubber, but on most nights
> you're exactly right, you just don't need one.
>
> Fair winds,
>
> Joe
> s/v Sunshine
>
> At 04:42 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote:
> >Bryan,
> >I only think of a "snubber" when the chain would be
> >snapping as result of a relatively short, straight
> >line it's in. That doesn't occur too often in my
> >life.
> >The curved line and the weight of the chain produce
> >a nice soft brake for me in normal conditions.
> >What I do is make sure the load isn't on the
> >windlass and thats about it.
> >Just my 2 cts.
> >
> >Happy new year,
> >Len
> >S/v Present
> >
> >
> >--- In , Bryan Genez
> <capella at c dot dot dot >
> >wrote:
> >
> > > Hmmm.... I've always believed that the purpose
> > > of the snubber was to stretch under load, and
> > > reduce the shock load that chain (which doesn't
> > > stretch) puts on the boat as it surges. I've
> > > been using 1/2 inch (12mm)nylon, but
> > > occasionally wonder if I should go smaller.
> > > 5/8 inch seems pretty large, unless you're
> > > sailing a megayacht.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Bryan Genez (KB3HMZ)
> > > "Capella" Valiant 40 #158
> > > Annapolis, MD
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