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From: Margo Dollan (no email)
Date: Mon Jun 21 2004 - 09:09:33 EDT
For the sailing purist (which you seem to be, Robert), sailing without
superfluous equipment is a fine personal choice. Other folks are
technophiles and love all the fancy gadgets, which is fine too. I myself (a
sailing novice and not afraid to admit it) kind of straddle the fence on
this issue. I would feel more comfortable with my family on board if I had
some of the electronic niceties (GPS, EPIRB, laptop for writing and
schoolwork, and yes, that slow old calculator). This does not mean that we
would not also have non-electronic navigational gear like a sextant (I just
like 'em!) and such. Every boat should have backup options, IMO.
I personally appreciate the opinions of both sides on this issue. The
purist can teach me more about what I can do if my electronics go out and
the technophile can alert me to new useful 'toys' I might be interested in.
So thank you both for your insight!
~Margo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Gainer" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 5:55 AM
Subject: RE: [world-cruising] Re: Some Observations
> Lew;
> I think it's interesting to see the assumptions that people make about one
> another. You think that because of my age I am not computer minded or
> technically proficient. I am now 51 years old and spent 25 years in the
boat
> building and repair business with my own shop. I was in that business
> because I enjoyed designing, building and repairing boats. Before that I
> wrote computer programs for yacht design in Fortran to run on an IBM
360-50
> computer. That was well before the PC that you may be familiar with.
>
> After I left the boat business my partner and I opened a computer shop in
> Suffern New York and just last year sold that to a friend of mine. I am
now
> back in the boating business, its more fun then anything I have done and I
> enjoy it very much. The modern yacht is a very complex and very technical
> piece of equipment. To work on it you must know a lot more then the
average
> car mechanic. The fact that I can work on the high tech composites
> structures or diagnose and do board replacement (tracing a circuit with a
> oscilloscope is not practical or worth the time because you cannot do the
> wave soldering on a multi layer board to replace the chips in the average
> boat shop) on electronics does not mean that I want that stuff on my boat.
I
> don't carry it to the extreme that I see in some of the foreign yachts
where
> the rigging is spliced, sails have hand worked details and the boat is
built
> in wood. I was the sailing master on one English 100 ton ketch that had a
> blacksmith on board; we did our own work on all parts of the boat and rig.
I
> do want to be self-sufficient and be able to maintain and repair my boat
> myself.
>
> You say something about the choice of cars. I drive a 1977 240D Mercedes
> diesel. The last 3 cars that I had were that year or within 2 years of
that
> model. I have the shop tools for that model car and engine; I do my own
work
> on it. It's cheaper to own, run and maintain then the modern car with all
> the electronics. Again that is a choice I make. I have a prom burner and I
> have copied proms from some of the newer cars to modify and then burn new
> ones for friends who want to change the performance. I also have the
adapter
> for my palm pilot to read the diagnostic code from some of the newer cars.
I
> just prefer that my stuff is simple and maintainable.
>
> I have a small lath that I use to make parts for boats. I travel with that
> and some other tools. The only reason that I had a machine shop make the
> parts for my sextant was that cutting such fine thread meant that I needed
> to find some tooling that I had stored and didn't know where to locate on
> the spur of the moment. A friend of mine runs the shop and cost was not an
> issue. I maintain his computer system for him and we trade favors all the
> time.
>
> But yes you are right about the TV and the Home Entertainment system, I
read
> or build something instead of watching TV, I don't feel the loss. I do
have
> a cell phone and I can't repair that, but I can't do surgery on myself or
> maintain the airplane that I fly in either. That doesn't mean that I don't
> have a doctor and don't fly. This e-mail is from a computer that I built.
> One of the computers for the boat is in a waterproof 19" rack with
removable
> drives for quick replacement on the boat. I sail with spare parts for all
> the computers on board but that's not my primary navigation or safety
> system.
>
> You say "Modern electronics do not replace prudent seamanship; however,
> trying to implement obsolete equipment rather than utilize modern
technology
> is also to put it politely, not swift", I don't think my choices are
> obsolete I think they are very practical and after 2 hurricanes 4 trans
> Atlantic crossings, sailing though Norway, Sweden, Germany, England,
France,
> Gambia, Senegal, Brazil, Spain, Portugal well you get the idea, I think my
> skill and seamanship should not be in question.
> All the best;
> Robert Gainer
>
>
>
> >From:
> >Reply-To:
> >To:
> >Subject: [world-cruising] Re: Some Observations
> >Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:03:03 -0700
> >
> >The whole concept of having equipment on board that can be repaired is
> >interesting, but misguided IMHO.
> >
> >Your view point is influenced by of your age, IMHO.
> >
> >Those who grew up with computer technology will have a different
> >perspective than those who came before them.
> >
> >If you ONLY use equipment that you as an individual can service and
> >repair, then in this day of high reliability, finite use, throw away, non
> >repairable products, you will probably not have any of the following:
> >
> >1) TV. Today, these are throwaway non repairable items.
> >2) Home entertainment electronics such as stereo, AM/FM radio. (Same as
> >TV)
> >3) Automobile. Nobody can work on a modern automobile without the
> >necessary test equipment.
> >4) Handheld calculator.
> >5) Cell Phone.
> >6) Personal computer.
> >
> >The list goes on but you get the idea.
> >
> >Yes, you can repair a mechanical device such as a sextant, if you can
> >find suitable shore side machine shop services, but at what cost?
> >
> >A basic GPS costs less than $100. If it dies, throw it in the trash and
> >pick up the next one. (Save the batteries)
> >
> >Doubt you will get a machine shop to make sextant renewal parts of under
> >$100.
> >
> >You can draw a new scale for my slide rule, but why bother when a new
> >electronic calculator is less than $10.
> >
> >Before you get the wrong idea, I'm not a big fan of electronic toys on a
> >boat.
> >
> >Being in the industrial electronics business, I recognize that all
> >electronics are sooner or later going to fail, probably sooner.
> >
> >Modern electronics do not replace prudent seamanship; however, trying to
> >implement obsolete equipment rather than utilize modern technology is
> >also to put it politely, not swift.
> >
> >Lew
> >
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> _________________________________________________________________
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