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From: Ron Lussier (no email)
Date: Mon Feb 16 2004 - 21:16:07 EST
I see you responded publicly to what was a *private* email. That's
considered bad netiquette. But perhaps you didn't know that.
On Feb 16, 2004, at 5:49 PM, Lynn & Kathy Ogden wrote:
> Actually it is not what I "believe", but is what I read in an article
> from
> The Juneau Empire, Feb 13, 2004 as posted in the original message on
> this
> subject from Tim Campbell. URL follows:
> http://www.gristmagazine.com/cgi-bin/forward.pl?forward_id=2014
>
> 2. "How are the customers being bullied by information on Oceana's web
> site?"
>
> According to the above cited article, the customers were being bullied
> on
> the Google Web Site. There is no mention anywhere of "Oceana's web
> site"
Apparently you cannot read very well. The article very clearly states
"Oceana's ad didn't mention Royal Caribbean directly". And neither the
ads nor the web site 'bullied' customers. The words 'bullied' or
'bully' are never used. How can you justify the statement 'according
to the above cited article, the customers were being bullied...'?
> 3. "Here are some facts:". Facts! So say you. No doubt from
> "Oceana's
> web site". Considering that you were unable to get items 1 & 2 above
> correct, it calls into question your stated "facts".
Well, that's your prerogative. But it would be interesting to hear
some facts from you. All I've heard so far is the sound of knees
jerking.
I can understand that you would be doubtful of statements on the
Oceana.org web site (though you have not refuted them.) How about the
Bush Administration's EPA web site?
http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/cruise_ships/
They write:
> Cruise ships are literally floating cities; individual vessels of
> 3,000 passengers and crew are not uncommon. These vessels typically
> visit a number of ports, offer many services to their passengers, and
> operate in ocean and coastal waters.
>
> Some of the discharges generated by cruise ships include bilge water,
> sewage, gray water (wastewater from showers, sinks, laundries and
> baths), ballast water, solid waste (food waste and garbage), and
> chemicals from photo processing, dry cleaning and paint. There is
> significant concern about the environmental impacts of these
> discharges.
Here are a few other articles, from varied sources:
http://www.georgiastrait.org/Articles2003/cruise1.php :
> Norwegian Cruise Lines has confirmed that its ship, Norwegian Sun,
> dumped about 62,000 litres of raw sewage into American waters near
> Port Townsend, southeast of Victoria.
Incidentally, that's 40 tons of raw sewage.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/05/07/cruise.sewage.ap/
> Cruise ships do not routinely pump sewage into city sewers in Seattle,
> nor do they have permits to dump into state waters. But federal law
> allows dumping at least three miles out to sea.
http://www.csc.noaa.gov/magazine/2001/04/alaska.html
> Environmental laws impacting the industry in the U.S. were mostly
> written in the 1970s, when cruise ships were not considered a serious
> threat to the environment, says Craig Vogt, deputy director of the
> U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) Oceans and Coastal
> Protection Division. The Coast Guard is responsible for making sure
> the MSDs for sewage are installed, but Vogt notes, "more effort is
> needed to ensure that they are functioning properly." There are no
> federal standards for gray water discharges.
>
> In 1999, a leading cruise ship company [Royal Caribbean] pled guilty
> to 21 felony violations of federal law, including seven in Alaska, and
> agreed to pay a record $18 million fine. The company admitted
> polluting repeatedly and lying to the Coast Guard about it. Several
> other cruise ship companies also have received substantial criminal
> penalties in the hundreds of thousands of dollars for similar
> incidents, notes a report by the U.S. Government Accounting Office.
How are those for facts? Two from the federal government, one from
CNN. Hardly 'left wing wackos'.
> 4. "I forgot that you say things from a position of zero knowledge.
> Hey, ignorance is one way to live... but I find it offensive that you
> consider yourself a yachtsman."
>
> As usual, if all else fails one can resort to name calling.
I guess I'm boggling that a yachtsman would be in favor of dumping
sewage into coastal waters. And with regards to name-calling, I'd have
to refer back to your original statement:
> It's about time someone had the guts to stand up to the left wing
> wacko bullies.
coyote
---
ron lussier / lenscraft fine art photography
67 crescent avenue
AIM sausalito / ca 94965
http://www.lenscraft.com/ +1 415.331.3687
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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