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From: (no name) (no email)
Date: Thu Jan 08 2004 - 07:29:02 EST
I'll have a stab at replying, although I can't pretend to have a
comprehensive answer (sorry about the delay - I've been away!)
There was a mention in a later mail about EU Imports - I'll try to deal with
that first.
A boat is considered to be EU resident if it remains in the EU for (I think
this is correct - it has changed in recent years, and needs checking before
relying upon it) 18 months, over a certain period of time. This 18 months
is cumulative, and you cannot get round it by leaving the EU for a day at a
time, although on the face of it, such days outside the EU will not count
towards the total (in practice, such 'finer points' are liable to be totally
ignored).
A boat is also deemed EU resident immediately upon entry, if it is owned (or
beneficially owned - which includes 'indirect' ownership via trust companies
or bodies corporate that themselves are not EU resident) by an EU resident,
regardless of where registered (examples of this are in the very many
Guernsey flagged boats in the Med - although kinda British, the Channel
Islands are not in the EU).
If a boat is deemed to have become resident in the EU, as above, then it is
liable for VAT, typically at the point of entry (and VAT rates vary from
country to country), *plus* (unless certain conditions are met) it must
conform to the RCD (the Recreational Craft Directive). Ensuring conformance
with the RCD would almost certainly be an expensive exercise, unless
certification can be retrospectively obtained from the manufacturer.
Basically, this makes the import of foreign second-hand boats something of a
nightmare, and best avoided.
The problem with the VAT issue, is that it is rare, but not unknown for non
VAT-paid boats to be summarily arrested by Customs and Excise officials, and
be presented with a VAT demand. I would guess this mainly occurs to
European flagged boats, as trying to avoid VAT is a well-known scam, so a US
flagged boat would probably not suffer from this unless the local customs
office had some other kind of reason for picking on it. The C&E have
draconian powers, and once having made up their minds, it becomes *your*
problem - they are rarely interested in reason (or indeed any kind of legal
submissions), about the only recourse is to pay the bill. Also,
interpretation of EU regs varies from country to country, and indeed from
port to port.
I don't want to make too much of this, and I certainly wouldn't want to put
anybody off, as I am certain such VAT surprises are very very rare. But it
has happened, and is worth being aware of.
Cruising.
The Western Med is a fun place to cruise, but yes, it is pretty expensive.
My boat, a 60ft ketch, is currently in Palma, Majorca (just about the most
expensive place to be, except maybe (I am guessing) some of the very chic
French ports like St Tropez, Cannes, etc..) Over Christmas I paid 1100
Euros (about $1400) for about 5 weeks berthing in Club Nautico, Palma - and
that is low season!!! You can tell what the place is like - when we
arrived and were assigned a berth, we were the smallest boat on the
pontoon... The infrastructure is very good - you can get *anything* done
there (though the same is probably true of places like Barcelona too, albeit
more reasonably).
Gibraltar (which, although being attached to Spain, and having historic
British connections, like the Channel Islands, Jersey and Guernsey etc, is
not in the EC) is much cheaper, at around $500 per month for a 60ft boat.
It is a good place to lay over for a while, and has reasonable (but not
great) facilities for getting things done. For re-supply and resting up, it
is fine (although a surprising number of boats seem to reach Gib 'on the way
through', and never seem to leave...) and it is good to base a boat for a
while, as you can go East, West or South from there.
West from Gib, the Atlantic coast of Spain and Portugal is good sailing and
is quite well served by marinas, tending to be more reasonable in cost than
the Med itself, and less touristy and hence potentially more
interesting/authentic the further west you go. I am told that the west
coast of Portugal (apart from Cascai) is not too interesting (we sailed
right past all of it), but that the Spanish Rias (western and northern
Spanish coast) are well worthwhile. Personally, I am very fond of Brittany,
but that is getting rather away from the Med...
Directly South from Gib, on the African coast, is the Spanish dependency of
Ceuta. It is a very lively, albeit funky, little town - a melting pot of
Spanish and Moroccan cultures, from which forays may be made into the
interior. The marina is quite small (and equally funky), but a number of
boats over-winter there, finding both the Marina charges and cost of living
very reasonable, and as I say, it is a lively place. Smaller boats are
reasonably well served, by for my own boat, at 60ft, there are only a couple
of places we can lie along the harbour wall (the pontoons are rather more
secure, but are too small for us).
A few miles East and South from Ceuta is Marina Smir, which is a very large
Marina and modern resort built for European boaters, and the more
well-heeled locals (and often sporting very large >100ft motor yachts). It
is run by a Spanish company, Marina Marbella, and is a very smart and secure
marina (with a decent sized travel-lift), but pretty much at Spanish prices
(not excruciating like Majorca, but not third-world, either). If you are in
the region, it is a good place to visit, and excursions may readily be made
to Tetuan, the local capital, and other places of interest.
West from Ceuta is Tangier, which although you may readily go there, does
not really cater for yachtsmen, the port is basically a dump. Best avoided
(I have no plans to re-visit). I have heard pretty much the same about
Casablanca, round the corner on the western coast, but I have no direct
knowledge of there, nor anywhere in Africa south of that (apart from the
Canary Isles, which are of course a vital staging-post for the
trans-Atlantic crossing to the Carribean).
East from Gibraltar, all along the Mediterranean coast of Spain and France,
are very many Marinas, small and large. Many of them though have extensive
private berths, and even in the off season you can turn up, see lots of
empty spaces, only to be informed that the Marina is 'Complet' (full). We
have discovered though, that if you don't just accept that and leave, if you
just stand there looking forelorn, and persist in asking, and particularly
if it is getting fairly late, they will often find you a berth for the night
(not always though).
The whole coast is pretty intensively populated, and fairly fashionable.
The result is that there isn't much (if anything) by way of free, protected
anchorages. Also, it is often said that in this region there is always too
little wind, or too much wind (and I can vouch that pretty nasty conditions
can arrive with very little notice). Another comment is that there are only
two types of motor boat in the Med - those with sails, and those without
sails.
A lot of boats seem to enter the Med, stop to consolidate at Gib, then make
a run for the Eastern Med. (I can say nothing about Italy, Corsica,
Sardinia and Sicily, as I do not know them, but I have heard they are worth
exploring, and are much less costly than the mainland).
Greece and Turkey in particular are well-known cruising grounds, very
beautiful, and much less costly than the Western Med, with plenty of
anchorages. The winds tend to be rather more reliable than further west.
Greece has some kind of 'cruising tax' you have to pay upon entry with a
foreign (non-Greek) boat - this is totally illegal under EU law (free
circulation and all that), but it is not too costly - mainly just a big
PITA, with currently no alternative but to pay it.
Turkey seems to be a place where people go to get work done (haulouts, new
decks etc) and favourable prices. In terms of cruising, I have bareboated
out there a couple of times - and I will be going back there - it is
beautiful (I may take my own boat there now it is in the Med).
There are other less frequented regions that get talked about favourably -
Croatia, the Black Sea etc.. I have no knowledge of these, but I guess they
would be much less developed, and correspondingly very interesting.
There are a whole pile of pilot books written by a chap called Rod Heikell
(published by Imray, I think), who seems to have spend his life (and still
is) cruising the Eastern Med. They are a mine of information about the area
- buy one if you want to get a direct feel for the area.
Regarding safety for (in particular) US flagged craft, I can think of no
reason why the areas I have mentioned should not be safe for the cruising
sailor. Morocco should be fine, and certainly Greece, and most probably
Turkey too. Tunisia has a number of resorts frequented by Europeans, so
they would be fine I would think (might need to be choosy wrt to which ports
though). Crete and Cyprus are also holiday destinations, and so should be
absolutely fine, but I guess most of us would naturally try to avoid the
likes of Libya.
Also, the Red Sea and Suez canal are an important route for
circumnavigators, although one does read some pretty coulourful accounts of
some of those trips, but it seems to mainly be the segments south of Suez
that give cause for most concern (piracy etc).
I suppose it might depend upon what your government has most recently been
up to at any particular time -- best have a word with George Dubya about
that!
Regarding working in the region, I couldn't really guess. In all
probability you might not be legally entitled to work under the terms of
entry (not having been exposed to that process, I couldn't comment - but
that is what I get when I enter the USA). Practically, I suppose it would
depend upon what you have to offer by way of skills, and upon your personal
resourcefulness. Maybe you need to talk to someone who has tried it.
Certainly in the less developed countries, people work for correspondingly
less money - so don't hope to make a fortune - available income (if you can
get it) is likely to bear a relationship to the local cost of living....
Anyway, I hope that helps.
Alan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lynn stone [mailto:]
> Sent: 12 December 2003 03:43
> To:
> Subject: [world-cruising] Cruising and then wintering in the Med
>
>
> Some friends of ours, an older couple; well, about our
> age I guess :-), know I have signed up for this list
> and have gotten some good information which I have
> shared with them. They have asked if I will present a
> question or few to the list for them. I hope this is
> okay.
>
> Next year they will be embarking on a cruise to the
> Med and are thinking about wintering over in that
> area. They are not wealthy people so they won't be
> staying in the expensive marinas too often. Anchoring
> and any free or low cost moorage will be the order of
> the day for them whenever possible. I know I have
> heard through printed stories in the magazines that
> prices in the Med are quite high when it comes to
> marinas, etc. and would think this might be the case
> with just about everything with the declining value of
> the dollar. Therefore, wintering over there without
> working might be just too much for their budget or
> perhaps they would leave the boat and fly back. They
> really do not want to do that however.
>
> Their questions at present are:
> 1. Are prices as high as I have heard in that area of
> the world?
>
> 2. Is it possible to work in the country you are
> wintering over?
>
> 3. What are the best places (best being safe, least
> expensive, warm, ability to work on the boat, with
> things to do and see) to winter over?
>
> 4. How have the current world events effected the
> cruising, carrying a U.S. passport, and flying a U.S.
> flag in that part of the world?
>
> 5. Any places to absolutely avoid and why?
>
> Thanks. I will pass on the information and encourage
> them to join the list on their own.
>
> Lynn
>
>
>
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