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Subject: Re: [world-cruising] Fiberglass or Steel
JAXAshby@XXX.XXX
Date: Mon May 12 2003 - 09:31:49 EDT
capella, your prejudices are coloring your "facts". Let's look at things
point by point.
In a message dated 5/12/2003 8:37:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
capella@XXX.XXX writes:
> JAXAshby@XXX.XXX wrote:
>
> >_Generally speaking_, a
> >steel sailboat is much less likely to be holed in a nasty encounter with
> the
> >hard stuff around the edges of the water than a glass boat, because
> >_generally speaking_ a steel boat is built stronger than a glass boat.
> Sorry, but no.
The statement stands, _generally speaking_ steel boats (we are talking of
recreational sailboats here) are build *much* stronger than glass boats.
> Steel and fiberglass are not equal materials.
No kidding.
Each has entirely different > properties.
Nah, not *entirely different*.
For example, steel has much greater resistance to abrasion than
>
> does fiberglass...so when a steel boat grounds on a coral reef, it can
> often
> be salvaged. When a fiberglass boat grounds in the same place, it gets
> chewed up.
This -- while true -- was not part of the statement that _generally
speaking_ steel (recreational sail)boats are build stronger than glass.
Interesting comment,but not germane.
>
> That has *nothing* to do with strength of construction.
So?
>
> Metal hull boats cost more to build than fiberglass, because more labor is
> required.
The discussion is mostly one-off steel boats compared to production glass
boats. In that case, metal is less costly.
That's why almost every boat manufacturer builds in fiberglass; > it keeps
> their costs down.
Only *if* the cost of the mold for a glass boat is amoratized over at least
dozens of boats. Molds for glass boats are *VERY* labor intensive to make,
and *VERY* expensive.
If money is less important, you can get a > custom-built metal boat from a
> reputable builder.
If money is MORE important, you can get a custom-built metal boat from a
reputable builder for faaaaaaaaaar less than you can get a custom-built glass
boat from a reputable builder. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, the discussion is the
price of a same quality used steel sailboat as compared to a same quality
used glass sailboat, and under that criteria the steel boat costs much, much,
much, much less.
> For the backyard builder, steel boats are much easier to build than are
> fiberglass...which is why such a large percentage of steel boats are
> home-built. The greatest risk anyone faces when buying a home-built steel
> boat is that you're buying the construction standards of the builder. Was
> the builder a "Junkyard Warrior" who believed everything should be free,
> and
> made his decisions accordingly; or was he a skilled naval engineer with a
> passion for building the perfect boat, costs be damned?
The discussion plainly stated that a potential buyer become knowledgeable
enough to know those items regarding a steel boat _without_ professional
surveyor assistance. The discussion plainly stated that same quality boats
-- steel and glass -- are being compared. The discussion also plainly stated
that low quality steel boats can live on for decades while low quality glass
boats are dumpsterized decades earlier.
> In order to keep them seaworthy, steel boats require *more* attention and
> *more* maintenance than fiberglass.
Not true. Not true at all. What is true that steel boat require more
attention to stay looking good.
As Rick pointed out, steel boats rust > from the inside out. Corrosion begins
> at the weld points. Every weld should be inspected routinely and
> protected. Note that *no* protection is permanent.
So? You expect that glass boats can be ignored in their day-by-day,
year-by-year use?
Unfortunately, most steel boats have ribs that are completely > inaccessible,
> as home-builders don't think of inspection requirements.
How is this different from the interior pan arrangement used by production
glass boat builders for the last three decades?
btw, a steel boat that can not be thoroughly inspected without removing the
interior is not a boat that should be considered for purchase. That *some*
steel boats are built that way does not condemn those that are not.
> Apparently, there's still a myth going around that steel boats are easier to
> repair than fiberglass. In some cases, that's true; in many, it is not.
If it is true, then it is not a myth.
> Most boats can carry the repair materials for a fiberglass boat in a small
> drawer. I haven't yet meet a metal-boat owner who keeps welding equipment
> aboard. Today, most places in the world can be reached by delivery
> services
> within a couple of days, if you need a part or equipment. Exactly how
> remote does one have to get before it gets impossible to repair a
> fiberglass
> boat?
The availability of solid repairs to steel boats is one of the reasons you
see so many decades old steel boats -- even poorly constructed steel boats.
Old glass boats usually are not worth the effort to repair structural
problems in the boat.
btw, the impact that puts a hole in a glass boat small enough to repair with
the stuff in a "small drawer" (your words) merely scratches the steel boat,
which keeps on sailing. The impact that puts a glass boat out of commission
for months often leaves the steel boat merely scratched up, or maybe dented a
bit, and the boat sails on, repairs to be made when convenient.
>
> But the bottom line (at least for me) is this. The oceans are not filled
> with semi-submerged containers waiting for a boat to sink. Nor are they
> filled with pirates waiting for sailors to kill. Almost every boat built
> is
> strong enough to cross an ocean; the weak link is the crew.
Actually, the weak link is that hard stuff around the sides of the oceans.
That and the fact that virtually every last cruising boat eventually hits
that hard stuff. Some cruisers are more comfortable with a stronger boat
between them and the hard stuff out there.
If your boat is > not capable of keeping the crew comfortable and safe, you
> will not have a successful passage. When selecting a boat for
> passagemaking, the *first*
> criteria should be if that boat has a history of successful passages.
Nah.
If it > does not - and I include in that category every home-built boat - you
> should
> either eliminate it or very carefully examine it for your intended use.
No, not I should, but rather *you* should, for that is what you are
comfortable with. Me, I'm comfortable with my knowledge of boats and my
ability to inspect them. I'm also comfortable with the lower price of a
steel boat of the same quality as a glass boat.
btw, I currently own a glass boat simply because that was the boat that was
available to me when I wanted to buy. Somewhat later, a steel boat (home
built) stopped in my boatyard for a couple hours one Sunday. The owner
wished to sell the boat as it was bigger (40 feet) than he wished to sail. I
took the guy's name and number and called him back that winter. The boat was
sold to a couple who later became friends of mine. That couple is cruising
right now and have been Maine to the Caribbean and back twice.
>
> --
> Best,
>
> Bryan (KB3HMZ)
> "Capella" Valiant 40 #158
For the price of your Valiant, you could have bought a Van de Stadt 48 with
palacial interior and had a hundred grand left over.
> Annapolis, MD
>
>
>
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>
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