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Subject: Re: [worldcruising] failed trip
From: Rosalie B. (gmbeasley@XXX.XXX)
Date: Wed Aug 22 2001 - 09:14:49 EDT
On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:09:03 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi
>I believe I bought that video at a flea market for $5.00 then sold it on e-bay
>when I saw what it was. It was mostly paid for by Hunter. Hunter and Steve
>Dashew have an interest in light fin keel boats. The video gave me the
I got it second hand too. I mostly discounted what it said because I know
we CAN heave to, and that we DON'T have a light fin keel boat. So I
assumed that the tactics that they advocated would not be optimal for us.
I didn't know the connection with Hunter. But that's why I was careful to
say who they used as 'experts' - because I had/have no idea who they were.
>impression they wanted you to believe Hunters etc. are good blue water boats
>because they can out run bad weather. They then wanted you to believe if you
>handled the boat like they said it would be safe in a storm.
>Some observations. When they couldn't get the boat to heave to they tried
>running down wind. This presented the unreinforced sugar scoop transom to the
>seas. That was Ok in the approx. 20 knts wind they were in. They were also I
>think in the bay. Deadly offshore with a drogue to slow you down. Read the
>comments of the coast guard study on that one..
>It was also my impression that the video was intended to be for their version of
>heavy weather which seemed to be about 20 to 25 knts in protected waters. Kind
>of a left handed way to get people to buy their boats. Actually might be Ok for
>people who just want a spacious boat to sail on the bay. They probable can out
>run bad weather and get back to the slip. Some what harder to do on a long
>offshore passage.
>Anyway I was left with a bad feeling that that video could get someone hurt if
>it caused a newbe to believe the boat could do more than it can.
>Bob sv Adagio
>
>
>"Rosalie B." wrote:
><snip>
>
>>
>> No experience, but I have a video tape about heavy weather sailing (in
>> addition to the Pardey's book and another book and a couple of books about
>> sea anchors/drogues which we have one of, but haven't had a place to try it
>> yet.)
>>
>> I think the video tape makes the point that different boats will have
>> different optimal methods of dealing with heavy weather. The boat in the
>> video had a fin keel, and when hove too, it was broadside to the waves,
>> which would not be good. The experts in the video recommended that such a
>> boat would do better to run before the wind. I made notes on the tape
>> (watched it twice) and this is what my notes say:
>>
>> >The tape is "Heavy Weather Sailing", and it was narrated by Mark Schrader
>> >(apparently an organizer and racer) and written by Gary Clark and Tim
>> >Sevison.
>> >
>> >The demo boat named "Segue" was sailed off the northern California coast
>> >and was manned by Zan Drejes (Bear Flag Yacht Services), Liz Baylis (a
>> >competitive sailor) and Allan Little (Merchant Marine Officer and charter
>> >boat captain). They specified that the boat was a moderate displacement
>> >fin keel, spade rudder boat with a roller reefing (headsail) system and
>> >that they were simulating a shorthanded (i.e. cruising and not racing)
>> >crew.
>> >
>> >The tape addressed sailing in heavy weather (various aspects), protective
>> >equipment and storm tactics. Various experts were interviewed, and these
>> >included:
>> >
>> >Steve Dashew, Warren Luhrs (President of Hunter Marine), John Jourdane,
>> >Olaf Harken, Mike Plant (competitive sailor), Jay Mason (Master Chief at
>> >USCG Motor Lifeboat School) who spoke about seasickness, John Neal
>> >(author), and David Kennedy (owner of Armchair Sailor Bookstore).
>> >
>> >Specialists on sails and rigging included Patrick Adams, Steve Taft, Neal
>> >Pryde and Pryde's sails manager Tim Yourteff. I have no way of knowing how
>> >famous or infamous any of these people are as I did not recognize any names
>> >except Steve Dashew.
>> >
>> >Among other things, they said: Boats with modern underbodies are capable
>> >of surfing (downwind as an active storm tactic) well in excess of hull
>> >speed, but that older designs are not suited to active tactics. Schrader
>> >reiterated that fin keel spade rudder boats increase steering control with
>> >increased speed. Dashew also said that medium to light displacement fin
>> >keel, spade or skeg rudder boats will steer better at high speeds than full
>> >keel heavy displacement boats. Luhrs felt that the Colin Archer designs
>> >(implied older designs here) were so heavily built that they could handle
>> >heaving to without a problem.
>> >
>> >Then they addressed passive tactics - a time when even under bare poles the
>> >boat is moving too fast to steer. Schrader described heaving too, and
>> >asked if a fin keel boat could heave to, so the demo boat tried it. They
>> >ended up hove to with the wind and seas abeam, and Schrader said that
>> >modern boats tend to pivot around the fin keel.
>> >
>> >I thought that the boat belonged to Zan, who did most of the helmsman work,
>> >and so I assumed that if he could heave his own boat to that it wouldn't
>> >work well on that boat or on that type of boat.
>> >
>> >They did address a drogue once and said it should not be put in from the
>> >bow.
>>
>> grandma Rosalie
>
>
>
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grandma Rosalie
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