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From: (no name) (no email)
Date: Sun Apr 13 2008 - 20:36:05 EDT
In a message dated 4/13/08 12:00:45 AM,
writes:
>
> James Clausen Wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
> But I feel the pain of spending $245. I have brought up and will continue
to
> bring up that the boater needs limited access to these standards to follow
> the practices the ABYC dictates to manufactures and surveyors at a nominal
> cost. And that $245 is unreasonable for that access.
>
> To Dave Legrow again, Dave when a circuit breaker manufacturer sits down as
> a member of the ABYC electrical committee, they do so disregarding personal
> interest. I guarantee you that this is the case. They supply extremely
> valuable information in regard to what is available, and what is practical
> in regard to specifications and manufacturing. They are not self serving.
> Truly this group would never allow it. I have never seen a hint of it,
ever.
>
>
> <END SNIP>
>
> James, in a prior life, I worked on development of ISO 900x International
> quality standards. How well I remember the discussions of choosing a comma
> or semicolon, or placement of a comma, or of not using the comma at all. I
> don't miss it much. Cruising is much more fun!
>
> In this thread, there have been some valid points made. I wonder if you
> would comment on one, in particular. Many marine appliances - bilge pumps,
> water pumps, NMEA certified electronics packages from multiple
manufacturers
> - do not use tinned BC5W2 wire.
>
>
> Why? The quick answer is they are not required to do so. The ABYC sets up
> the "Standard Technical Information Report for Small Craft" it is not the
law.
> The CFR's are the law. But, if there is a fault aboard, and the fault can be
> traced back to not following the ABYC standard, the manufacturer of that
> devise, or installer of that devise, or the user of that devise in an
unapproved
> situation would be hard pressed in court to make their case as to why they
> choose NOT to follow the ABYC standards.
>
> Are they non-compliant devices?
> We need to understand that the ABYC is not UL. The ABYC does not "list" a
devise as approved.
As for the answer to "are they non-compliant" that would have to be answered
by the ABYC standards committee for the area of the standard.
I have a Furuno Chartplotter with a non tinned DC power cord, why in the
world would they do this?
I have had a 1/3 of a million dollar boat with un-tinned copper ground
wiring, why?
As an aside there is a new standards committee just formed to handle
components.
> Will some surveyor come along and force a boat owner to upgrade those
> devices?
> A surveyor cannot "force" you to bring your boat up to the existing
standard.
BUT, they can follow an insurance companies guidelines and either;
1.- Make you follow all of their recommendations prior to issuing a policy,
or, more commonly,
2.- Make you follow their recommendations by their survey, with no
reinspection, and if any of their recommendations were not followed, and it is
the
cause, or contributed to the cause for the loss, they can choose not pay the
loss
on the grounds that you did not follow their recommendations.
>
> On the ABYC cost point, what do "the powers that be" at the ABYC say to
> technical committee members that lobby for less expensive access to the
> standards.
> They have basically ignored me. I have gotten tentative approval to post
excerpts of the standard on the web, and will do so in the next few months. I
will
post the ABYC standard location when its approved. PS: This will be much like
the ABYC standards data that Anchor Wire used to have on their website.
Regards to all, James Clausen, MV Summer School
> In my view, the single greatest hole in the entire system is the
> ever present DIYer. It seems to me that any organization with a mission of
> public safety should be highly motivated to get their information into the
> hands of DIYers, who are motivated to get it done at the least possible
cost
> often with little or no skill in getting it done *right.* I have a lot of
> priorities for $245, but I might be willing to come up with $50. What in
> the world is the resistance to a $50 membership as a "Pleasure Craft Owner
> Operator?" The license agreement could prohibit the use of the standards
in
> commercial enterprise, etc. etc, lots of legal blah, blah, blah....
>
> Finally, to your point on self interest, I recently had an "opportunity" to
> exchange email with a man <named> of a company called <company name>. (I
> will share the name and company name off list.) He indicated he was a
> member of the AC Electrics technical committee of the ABYC. Same team
> you're on? This single anectedotal exchange clearly suggests he was
> actively lobbying for standards that would generate a windfall for his
> company. His response to my concerns was, well let's just say, both
> inaccurate and terse. Not very professional, *if* he is what he purports
to
> be..
>
> Thanks, James
>
> Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary,
> currently at Punta Gorda, FL
>
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