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From: Candy Chapman and Gary Bell (no email)
Date: Wed Jan 02 2008 - 07:53:14 EST
<snip out Butch Dalton's comments about searching the archives, others
will have more experience than I do>
BUTCH COMMENTED:
I am in the market for an inverter. I already have a Xantrex Truecharge 40+
battery charger and, contrary to some negative comments noted here in the
past, and this is my second unit, have had good service.
REPLY: I think the Truecharge line of chargers has had a quite good
reputation, here on-list and elsewhere (West Marine's catalog infomercials,
for example). I've never had one, so that's all I can say. I have had the
Xantrex Pro-Sine 2 kw combination inverter and charger, which failed
dramatically and which Xantrex refused to repair, or even advise me on
repairing (no schematic or parts available). They offered only to sell me a
replacement at about their cost. Many others at that time reported similar
problems with the inverter/charger and with the company. As I recall (from my
copies of Trawler list and some private correspondence on this issue) I had a
lively correspondence with one of our best respected list commentators who
stated that he worked for Xantrex as a technical consultant of some sort, was
keenly aware of the problems with the Pro-Sine line and no longer works for
them. It bears pointing out in this context that Xantrex is a fairly new
corporate entity, which resulted from the merger of several old lines of
charger and inverter makers under a new corporate identity, and that my
opinion, and that of several others was that they were placing corporate
success ahead of customer support (my opinion there, others are free to
disagree, and I am not implying that the Trawler list supports this or any
other view in any way). I gathered at the time that the Pro-Sine that I
bought in 2002 was early production of a line that was developed just before
the merger, and they offered a discounted Pro-Sine, which the customer rep I
talked to admitted could still bear the fatal flaw, or a similarly discounted
MS series, that was their brand new 'upgraded' redesign.
Due to reasons not related to boating, I have hardly used the boat since, and
I have still not replaced the big inverter/charger. I did tap in a small two
output automatic charger to support my house bank and genset start battery,
and plan to replace (and expand) the old battery bank when I install a new
Phoenix MultiPlus 2 kw unit from Victron Energy. Check it out at
www.victronenergy.com/ All the usual disclaimers apply, merely an
enthusiastic potential customer.
BUTCH ASKED:
My question to the group is then - what is the preference as to integrated
chargers/inverters versus separate units?
MY REPLY:
No question, integrated. Several useful capabilities emerge from the linkage,
depending on the make/model, but all of them seem to get some synergistic
features from having all the functions in a single box. In the case of my
favorite, the unit has an automatic AC power management system which prevents
overloading of a limited AC source. First, battery charging is automatically
reduced when otherwise an overload of the AC source would occur. Another
automatic system boosts the output of a generator or shore side supply with
power taken from the battery, particularly useful where peak power is often
required only for a limited period, it will make sure that insufficient shore
or generator power is immediately and automatically compensated for by power
from the battery. This is particularly handy for situations where the total
load includes motor driven loads that are periodically switched on, like A/C,
refrigeration and large pumps, where the starting demands much more current
than maintaining the load, so your otherwise sufficient system doesn't go dark
whenever the A/C comes on. Even a full featured stand-alone inverter can act
as a UPS, compensating it's output for interruptions or deficiencies in the AC
source, but the integrated model can trim the battery charging function
appropriately at the same time to help manage the AC load. The integrated
systems also allow for a single control and indicator panel to show all the AC
and DC systems together. If you mounted separate units a significant distance
apart, there would be an issue with the weight and cost of the heavy cabling
to carry the DC between them.
BUTCH FURTHER ASKED:
The inverter would be used to power a LCD TV, a microwave, coffeemaker, laptop
and cellphone chargers, maybe the stove occasionally, the usual. Are any of
these of concern as far as possible harm from a modifies sine wave inverter?
MY REPLY:
I recall on this list comments about trouble running most of the load items
you mentioned on Modified Sine Wave inverters. I particularly recall sob
stories about burned up flat screen tv's, small battery chargers, particularly
power screwdriver chargers for some reason, and comments about overheating the
power supply bricks for laptop computers. MSW inverters put out a 'fake' sine
wave composed of sharp shouldered steps up and down in voltage, whereas a pure
sine wave is a gradual continuous increase and decrease in voltage. Loads
that are purely resistance in nature, like simple heaters (or your stove
elements) should be OK. What are called 'inductive loads', where the AC is
sent through a transformer have problems. The sudden increase or decrease of
voltage at those sharp shoulders makes the transformer act as though a much
higher AC voltage was being input, for a tiny time anyway, and the output
voltage and current of the transformer is not likely to be what was intended.
Transformer power supplies that come with our electronic goodies are almost
always designed to just barely put out the required power, and even a little
change in output can toast your electronics. MSW inverters are generally less
expensive that the sine wave sort, and in my experience are less often fitted
with all the fancy features.
You didn't exactly say it, but I will presume that you have considered the
size of the loads you want to run, and will size your inverter and it's
battery bank appropriately.
BUTCH FINISHED WITH:
Space is not an issue but cost of course, is.
MY REPLY:
Of course, cost is a significant limit for just about all of us. Don't
forget, in your planning to include lots of ability to cool your charger and
inverter, they can really heat up in a little enclosed space .
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