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From: Alex Hirsekorn (no email)
Date: Tue Aug 02 2005 - 23:59:10 EDT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Georgs Kolesnikovs" <>
>
> It is precisely for the reasons illustrated in this thread
> (Telling the truth isn't vendor bashing!!!)--that some
> people will always attempt to abuse the List--that I, as the list
> owner, have appointed a team of volunteers to run the List and to
> take action as needed to ensure that the List remains the best such
> forum on the Net.
>
HiHo Listoids,
I've been biting my virtual tongue ever since this discussion started
but, in the interests of manageable blood pressure, I just have to
comment from the perspective of a former T&T listmaster.
To begin with, this sort of thing has come up before and will probably
come up again. Each such discussion is characterized by a small
faction of posters making claims and demands based on a complete and
total misunderstanding of the points at issue - to wit:
1. Any attempt to control ANY aspect of the discussion is some sort of
violation of the members' right to free speech. - The fallacy here is
that there are any free speech rights on this type of forum; there are
not! Members of any of the Trawlers & Trawlering family of mailings
lists post messages at the pleasure of the list owner (Georgs
Kolesnikovs). Further, Georgs has, as he explained in his post
yesterday, appointed a group of volunteers to interpret, implement,
and enforce the list rules and policies that have been in place since
the list was started. BTW: Each new member of the list is sent a copy
of those rules and policies on joining.
2. That list policy discourages negative comments about products or
vendors. - That has never been the case. What IS expected of our
members is that such negative comments be restricted to factual
information with a minimum of 'editorializing'. There is a very good
reason for this. As mentioned above, these lists are privately owned
entities and, as such, they provide a target for anyone of a litigious
turn of mind who feels he or his business has been slighted. Please
keep in mind that a lawsuit wouldn't have to be successful to put the
list(s) out of business!
In light of those points, most people would have to concede that list
administrators have taken a remarkably 'hands-off' approach to the day
to day running of the list. Of the three T&T listmasters (Georgs, Bob,
& myself) I was probably by far the most stringent about enforcing the
rules but even so, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number
of threads or posters that were restricted during my tenure. It has
always been the [unwritten] policy of these lists that the members can
almost always be trusted to comport themselves as ladies and
gentlemen. I won't presume to speak for Georgs, Bob, or any of the
Help Team members but I've always found it, not only unseemly, but
also profoundly disappointing when affluent, mature, and presumably
responsible adults find it necessary to resort to the sort of
invective seen in this discussion. It has been our good fortune as a
group to have members who are usually so willing to exercise self
restraint. Arguably, it is that self restraint that makes this recent
discussion stand out.
Another thing that I find disappointing, if not surprising, is that
those people who are the most vocal about perceived problems with list
rules or their implementation are never heard from when the call goes
out for volunteers to help with list administration. Even when things
are going smoothly there's a lot of behind the scenes 'nuts & bolts'
stuff that needs doing. When things aren't so smooth the workload
increases rapidly. Here's an example: Some time ago, while I was still
listmaster, we were contacted by a small manufacturer who claimed that
his product was unfairly criticized in a post that had been made over
5 years previous - legal action was threatened. I personally spent
something like 30 hours on this one issue; researching the original
post & its context, conferring with the admin team, and corresponding
with the complainant. In that case the post in question WAS a simple
statement of one person's experience with a particular product and
there happened to be numerous positive comments about the same product
at the time of the original post. All that made it 'easy' to resolve -
God forbid we ever get a difficult one! I only bring this up to point
out that your actions don't take place in a vacuum. If your post
unnecessarily upsets a supplier/manufacturer/vendor it results in a
good deal of extra work for a real flesh and blood person. Again, the
Trawlers & Trawlering lists have had the good fortune to have a cadre
of members who have been willing to give their time to the
administration of the list. OTOH: I personally find it bothersome when
people who complain about something are unwilling to put any
additional effort into the situation at hand.
Resignedly yours,
Alex
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